2000 kilograms of flint (or chert) including transport

Dear Knapping Forum,

I have written to three websites so far, but so far without success.

My name is Claudio Tennie, I am a researcher interested in the evolution of tool making and tool use, and I work at the University of Birmingham (School of Psychology). Here is my website: claudiotennie.com.

I would like to run a study on stone tool making here in Birmingham, and for this I will require about two tons (2000kg - yes this is not a typo) of knappable material (flint preferred, or else chert), all of which already pre-reduced to sizes appropriate to produce early stone tools (about 1kg each piece). So that would make 2000 individual items - all as standardized as is possible with this material.

Since I cannot just go to the city centre and buy this in a shop, I would oviously require professional help with this.

You see, I am currently writing a major grant proposal and would need a quote to enter the costs for these stones into it. Could somebody either provide me please with an estimate for the expected costs for this (including transport) or is somebody maybe able to send me a citeable quote?

Many thanks - and sorry for this perhaps weird-seeming request.

Best regards

Claudio Tennie

Hi,

Wow! 2000 large spalls wanted, that's some job. Trying to get my head around the best method to do this. 

The amount of work would make it a full time job for a knapper for quite a few days, then there would be the waste material, impossible to get rid of. I doubt any knapper could take delivery of 10+ tons of flint, have room for it and then dispose of 8+ tons of waste. Another problem would be that a knapper needs to inspect each nodule individually to see if it could be knapped, I usually spend an hour at a quarry on the flint pile just to find 20 nodules, though this is being over-careful, and it could be done much much faster. Another problem is all the high quality flint quarries in the UK have closed and finding a high quality nodules is becoming difficult 

The only solution I can think of is rather than taking the flint mountain to the knapper, take the knapper to the flint mountain, it could be arranged with the quarry for the knapper to knap on site. You could purchase a number of nodules from the quarry and have the knapper come and knap them there beside the flint pile, and only the finished spalls then need to be delivered. Another advantage would be if the knapper was beside the flint pile he could personally select each nodule himself. The trouble with this is you would need a knapper local to the quarry.

Cost of flint could be got by phoning a quarry, I'd guess around £2000. Cost of knapper would be a problem is it's difficult to estimate how many days it would take to do the work. Tools costs you would be looking at a steady supply of copper hammers, a wild guess £300.

you mention you wish to make items - can i ask what type of items you wish to make? 2000 spalls ia a huge amount especially if the flint is not to your liking.

Good evening Claudio, 
I think the most logical way to achieve what you are after is to order a delivery of twice the amount (the quarry local to me sells raw flint nodules straight from the chalk in ton bags and will deliver) and get the students to break them down into large flakes the correct size and shape with big quartzite hammer stones. They will make a lot of useful debitage in the process and they will also encounter every flaw and type of flint as well; they do need to learn the importance of selection, both good and bad. They will also lean valuable skills in predetermination of flake size in relation to the angle of the platform, force of blow and mass of hammer stone, plus it's a much cheaper method of getting what you are after!
I hope this helps.

A 1kg flake is going to be 6-8" long, it took me years to learn how to do them.

Dear all,

First of all: thank you very very much for all your answers!!
For various reasons it is not possible for me to bring the knappers to the site. So I still would need to somehow aquire these stones. Mr Hertzian Cone, you wrote your local quarry would deliver? Could you please bring me in contact with this quarry?
Another point raised, and which I did not think about before, is the point of getting rid of debris. Does anybody know how much that would cost me, say a ton of debris? I am new to the UK, and I guess I would have to send this to a landfill or so, at a cost?
As for what I would like the students to make: basically this will be determined a bit also by the outcome of the experiment. But we shall start with Oldowant type tools.
Grendel, after you calculation, it would take an experienced knapper like you about 100 hours to find 2000 suitable nodules? So, the grant that I am writing is a massive EU grant, and I could put in these costs. How much per hour would be a fair rate to pay? So, the costs of the stones would be 2000£, plus the man hours to find the nodules, plus the hammer tools (lets say 500£). And then maybe the costs of some preliminary work on the nodules - plus delivery and my costs of getting rid of debris. Not sure how much this all would add up to. But here is how grant agencies work: they dont want these details. They want the overall number. So, if I underestimate - even a little - that will be a big problem in the long run. But if I wildly overestimate, that will likewise bite me in the back. Eyeballing the various constraints, it seems to me the overall number is higher than I initially expected. Do you think it is crazy to write down an estimated cost, all in total, of 15000£?
Many thanks
Best
Claudio

A slight misunderstanding. When I suggested sending a knapper to the quarry, I didn't mean your knappers I meant the knapper you wanted to make the 2000 pieces for your experiment. 

So you would buy a pile of flint nodules at the quarry, have a knapper reduce them to 2000 flakes ready for use by your experiment, then you only need to arrange delivery of the 2000 flakes not the whole nodules and don't have any waste material to dispose of as it is left at the quarry. To get 2000 1kg flakes you will need to buy about 10 tons of flint, that's huge delivery and 8 tons of waste to dispose of. 

P.S.,

If you are stating with Oldawan, it was made from pebbles though, not flint nodules.

Ah, OK, thanks for clarifying. So in that case, would I still have to pay the quarry for ten tones, and would that mean ten thousand pounds? If I add to that the costs of the profi-knapper, all of this would get really big (though perhaps still handable by that grant).

Yes, the Oldowan would normally start from pebbles, but generally speaking, a 1kg prepared flint still allows for Oldowan tools to be made from it (at least in my understanding). That would be then like a repeated Oldowan flaking, only that it would start later on, and not from a pebble state.

I was estimating £2000 for all the flint. It's only about £150 a ton at my local quarry.

Have you ever knapped before? or do you have a knapper to teach the knappers? or will you learn as you go along?  the ratio of scrap material increases for the begginer, 2000 seems a very high number to start - i would of thought you get a ton bag of knapper spalls first - knapping might not be as easy as you think. i am not pre-judging but trying to offer good advice.

it might be worth you having a knap day with some good knappers like the 2 on here who have replied - i know they do displays and would of thought for a fee they may help?

I have not knapped before, and neither will the students that I will test. Yes, 2000 is a very high number, but it is a five year grant, and I need to put into the costings now how much stone I will need over the five year period (which explains these high numbers). Yes, absolutely i will need help from professional knappers at various points, and I could put these costs into the costings. But so far I have not read any hour rates. Would somebody please tell me usual hour rates? Maybe in a private email? My email ist c.tennie@gmail.com
Many thanks

I think your main problem is not going to be so much materials, which are cheap as research and skills. You could buy £300, 2 tons of flint per year.

However knapping in the almost 2 million years since it began changed and evolved dramatically by era and location. A wide range of tools, unrelated knapping methods and flint attributes were used. For example there is little connection in the knapping used to make a flint blade and a biface. Also even in five years isn't long enough for your students to develop the skills to knap more complex items, Acheulean hand axe are fairly quick to learn but a Danish Dagger can take decades of practice. As for knapper prices, the few I know charge around £20 per hour to £120 per day, both teaching and custom making stuff, not including travel costs.

Very useful, Grendel, thank you so much! Now I seem to have the numbers I need to finish the writing of the costings of the grant.
Yes, I will merely be looking at techniques in the range of million years ago.
Interesting point on the handaxe you make. How long you reckon (in practice hours) it takes a total (but eager) novice to learn, say, the earliest type of handaxes?

Making a very crude hand axe could be learnt with a week's practice if you had some high quality flakes to work from. However taking high quality flakes from a flint nodule takes an awful lot of practice. So beginners tend to work from low quality flakes and it takes an awful lot of practice to get out a handaxe from one of them.

Flat nodules work really well as a starting point, that's what I tend to use for a handaxe or a cleaver, that is if you can find them amongst the nobbly nodules.
This is the quarry I was refering too in an earlier post: http://www.needhamchalks.co.uk/#!flint/c19oe

This is all great information, thank you all very much!
So, for now I estimate the following costs for 2000 1kg semi-standardized pieces:

10 tons of raw material (1500 pounds)
Transport of the final pieces over the five year grant (lets say 1000 pounds)
Man hours selecting and shaping the 2000 pieces: 200 hours, a 20 pounds, that makes 4000 pounds.
Hammer stones (incl. man hours selecting and transporting them): 500 pounds.

All in all I would be looking at 7000 pounds. Does this calculation seem allright to you? Did I forget any costs?

Many thanks!!

Seems fine, too much, but that's what you said you wanted earlier.

excellent, thank you. Yes, things are always a bit more expensive down the line, and a buffer is required. Awesome, now I can write the grant. Wish me luck in getting it (and when I do, I will be back here with the intent to hire :-)

Good luck then.

I think we should get into consultancy!

Hi there, 

I am a PhD student working with Claudio on this project. First of all, thank you for all your advice with this, it is greatly appreciated! 

We are now looking to order some cores for pilot testing. We were thinking of getting around 40 cores of standardised chert, each weighing 1kg. Ideally they should be easily reproducible by other knappers. Does anyone know roundabout how much this would cost? how much is it per 1kg core? We would need them in Birmingham, so how does transport/delivery work? 

Apologies for all the questions, but you are all so knowledgeable it is hard not to take advantage! 

Thank you very much in advance, Elisa

Good evening Elisa, I would phone/email Needham chalks (I posted a link in an earlier post to their website) and ask for a quote for a ton bag of Norfolk flint plus delivery. That should give you what you are after and more. 
Garden centres sell quartzite cobbles which should service as large hammer stones, you should be able to source that locally.
Hope this helps.

1kg is small for a core, machine knapped or random flint, from Needham Chalks is best, as mentioned by Mr H, they sell them by the sack, and deliver. I'd go for flint from their Caister Quarry as first choice and Castle Acre second.

If you check the pics here, the white sacks at the back.
http://prehistorics-uk.tumblr.com/post/128931242134

Hi both, 

Thanks so much for the advice! I have contacted the quarry. However, we will need someone to get rid of the debris and prepare the cores, right? 

Is this something either of you would be interested in doing? if not, do you know someone who might be interested? and how much this might cost? 

Thanks again! really appreciate all the help!

Are you talking about having the core preparation done at the quarry or where you are? And what precisely do you want the flint prepared into?